Comments on: I Have been to a Church Where… http://lettersfromleavers.com/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&feed=Articles+%28RSS2%29&seed=http%3A%2F%2Flettersfromleavers.com%2Fblog%2F2007%2F02%2F18%2Fwe-have-been-to-a-church-where%2F&seed_title=I+Have+been+to+a+Church+Where%26%238230%3B "Dear Church..." - stories from those that have left Fri, 30 Dec 2011 22:55:10 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1 By: timhttp://lettersfromleavers.com/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&feed=Articles+%28RSS2%29&seed=http%3A%2F%2Flettersfromleavers.com%2Fblog%2F2007%2F02%2F18%2Fwe-have-been-to-a-church-where%2F&seed_title=I+Have+been+to+a+Church+Where%26%238230%3B/comment-page-1/#comment-381 tim Wed, 31 Oct 2007 04:49:46 +0000 http://lettersfromleavers.com/blog/2007/02/18/we-have-been-to-a-church-where/#comment-381 clarionprophet,No I do not know the author of this letter personally. However in my estimation after having read their letter there is no basis for calling the author a "narcissistic complainer" and a "baby Christian tossed all over the place."If you carefully read the letter you will notice that not one of the churches referenced by the author is "complained" about and many of the circumstances that the churches faced were perceived to be beyond the authors control (i.e. church not being able to afford the trailer to keep their possessions in; pastor sharing vision with church but being turned away by the leadership of the church). Rather than a tone of selfish complaining, I discern a measured and reflective tone as the author conveys their own experiences. clarionprophet,

No I do not know the author of this letter personally. However in my estimation after having read their letter there is no basis for calling the author a “narcissistic complainer” and a “baby Christian tossed all over the place.”

If you carefully read the letter you will notice that not one of the churches referenced by the author is “complained” about and many of the circumstances that the churches faced were perceived to be beyond the authors control (i.e. church not being able to afford the trailer to keep their possessions in; pastor sharing vision with church but being turned away by the leadership of the church). Rather than a tone of selfish complaining, I discern a measured and reflective tone as the author conveys their own experiences.

]]> By: clarionprophethttp://lettersfromleavers.com/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&feed=Articles+%28RSS2%29&seed=http%3A%2F%2Flettersfromleavers.com%2Fblog%2F2007%2F02%2F18%2Fwe-have-been-to-a-church-where%2F&seed_title=I+Have+been+to+a+Church+Where%26%238230%3B/comment-page-1/#comment-380 clarionprophet Tue, 30 Oct 2007 16:46:16 +0000 http://lettersfromleavers.com/blog/2007/02/18/we-have-been-to-a-church-where/#comment-380 Thanks Tim. You sound like a great guy and I appreciate your approach.But what if I'm right? I appreciate greatly the stories on these pages. My heart aches for what some of these folks have gone through. But this story sits in stark contrast to the others. Church after church after church after church after church. As Proverbs 18:17 reminds us, "The first to present his case seems right, till another comes forward and questions him."As Christians we need to extol tolerance. But as CS Lewis points out, true Christian tolerance includes looking at both the popular and the unpopular pespectives of an issue.Do you know the writer personally? Thanks Tim. You sound like a great guy and I appreciate your approach.

But what if I’m right? I appreciate greatly the stories on these pages. My heart aches for what some of these folks have gone through. But this story sits in stark contrast to the others. Church after church after church after church after church. As Proverbs 18:17 reminds us, “The first to present his case seems right, till another comes forward and questions him.”

As Christians we need to extol tolerance. But as CS Lewis points out, true Christian tolerance includes looking at both the popular and the unpopular pespectives of an issue.

Do you know the writer personally?

]]> By: timhttp://lettersfromleavers.com/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&feed=Articles+%28RSS2%29&seed=http%3A%2F%2Flettersfromleavers.com%2Fblog%2F2007%2F02%2F18%2Fwe-have-been-to-a-church-where%2F&seed_title=I+Have+been+to+a+Church+Where%26%238230%3B/comment-page-1/#comment-379 tim Tue, 30 Oct 2007 03:31:04 +0000 http://lettersfromleavers.com/blog/2007/02/18/we-have-been-to-a-church-where/#comment-379 In regards to clarionprophets reply above... Unless you personally know the author of the letter you are making a lot of assumptions about their character and motivation for writing their letter that don't seem to be apparent from the letter itself. Your comment runs counter to the spirit of this website and is therefore not appreciated. In regards to clarionprophets reply above… Unless you personally know the author of the letter you are making a lot of assumptions about their character and motivation for writing their letter that don’t seem to be apparent from the letter itself. Your comment runs counter to the spirit of this website and is therefore not appreciated.

]]> By: clarionprophethttp://lettersfromleavers.com/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&feed=Articles+%28RSS2%29&seed=http%3A%2F%2Flettersfromleavers.com%2Fblog%2F2007%2F02%2F18%2Fwe-have-been-to-a-church-where%2F&seed_title=I+Have+been+to+a+Church+Where%26%238230%3B/comment-page-1/#comment-377 clarionprophet Mon, 29 Oct 2007 05:42:24 +0000 http://lettersfromleavers.com/blog/2007/02/18/we-have-been-to-a-church-where/#comment-377 Sounds to me like you're a narcissistic complainer who's intentionally distorting the truth about your church situations to support your world view, ie, you're self centered and worship yourself. You're afraid of community and are afraid to attend a church for grown ups.Maybe you should stop worshiping a god of your preferences.You're not a church angel of death but you are the epitome of Ephesians 4:14 - you're a baby Christian tossed all over the place. Why? Because you refuse to be part of a place where there is accountability, strong Bible teaching and expectations.The next time you find yourself saying, "this church isn't what I want," listen carefully for the whisper of God. I bet he's saying something like, "since when has it been about what you want?" Sounds to me like you’re a narcissistic complainer who’s intentionally distorting the truth about your church situations to support your world view, ie, you’re self centered and worship yourself. You’re afraid of community and are afraid to attend a church for grown ups.

Maybe you should stop worshiping a god of your preferences.

You’re not a church angel of death but you are the epitome of Ephesians 4:14 – you’re a baby Christian tossed all over the place. Why? Because you refuse to be part of a place where there is accountability, strong Bible teaching and expectations.

The next time you find yourself saying, “this church isn’t what I want,” listen carefully for the whisper of God. I bet he’s saying something like, “since when has it been about what you want?”

]]> By: timhttp://lettersfromleavers.com/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&feed=Articles+%28RSS2%29&seed=http%3A%2F%2Flettersfromleavers.com%2Fblog%2F2007%2F02%2F18%2Fwe-have-been-to-a-church-where%2F&seed_title=I+Have+been+to+a+Church+Where%26%238230%3B/comment-page-1/#comment-266 tim Thu, 24 May 2007 21:24:58 +0000 http://lettersfromleavers.com/blog/2007/02/18/we-have-been-to-a-church-where/#comment-266 In response to Robin's comment,Last night God told me that LOST was the greatest TV show of all time and that I was right where he wanted me to be, sitting on my couch with my wife and a few good friends watching the season finale. In response to Robin’s comment,

Last night God told me that LOST was the greatest TV show of all time and that I was right where he wanted me to be, sitting on my couch with my wife and a few good friends watching the season finale.

]]> By: Robinhttp://lettersfromleavers.com/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&feed=Articles+%28RSS2%29&seed=http%3A%2F%2Flettersfromleavers.com%2Fblog%2F2007%2F02%2F18%2Fwe-have-been-to-a-church-where%2F&seed_title=I+Have+been+to+a+Church+Where%26%238230%3B/comment-page-1/#comment-249 Robin Thu, 24 May 2007 01:59:22 +0000 http://lettersfromleavers.com/blog/2007/02/18/we-have-been-to-a-church-where/#comment-249 So, are you the Angel of Death or just a Chruch Tramp? Just kidding! I think you are on the right track, but I would like to comment on one thing you say: "Now the challange is to find a new way of connecting ourselfs to eachother so that that we can acomplish the goals of the church without many of the social and instutional trappings we have created for ourselves" Creating a church is the work of the flesh, and as you painfullt describe above, you just keep recreating the same thing over and over, because your idea of what you think it means to be a Christian. Why not let God be God? God is looking to create for himself a people. HE will write his laws on the fleshly tables of their hearts. They will not write them on thier own hearts, nor will they write them on each other's hearts. Why not just get together as you feel led to, don't try to schedule the spirit, and when you get together just share what is going on in your own walk. Talk about what god said to your heart when you were watching that episode of Lost. Talk about the synchronicities that happened to you, how someone said somethingthat made you think of a certain scripture, or how you were on the internet looking for a totally unrelated thing and god brought you to this place, so you could see this thing, and what a blessing it was. Whatever you do, don't try to create a church. You ARE the church. THE Church, the Bride of Christ Church. So, are you the Angel of Death or just a Chruch Tramp? Just kidding! I think you are on the right track, but I would like to comment on one thing you say: “Now the challange is to find a new way of connecting ourselfs to eachother so that that we can acomplish the goals of the church without many of the social and instutional trappings we have created for ourselves” Creating a church is the work of the flesh, and as you painfullt describe above, you just keep recreating the same thing over and over, because your idea of what you think it means to be a Christian. Why not let God be God? God is looking to create for himself a people. HE will write his laws on the fleshly tables of their hearts. They will not write them on thier own hearts, nor will they write them on each other’s hearts. Why not just get together as you feel led to, don’t try to schedule the spirit, and when you get together just share what is going on in your own walk. Talk about what god said to your heart when you were watching that episode of Lost. Talk about the synchronicities that happened to you, how someone said somethingthat made you think of a certain scripture, or how you were on the internet looking for a totally unrelated thing and god brought you to this place, so you could see this thing, and what a blessing it was. Whatever you do, don’t try to create a church. You ARE the church. THE Church, the Bride of Christ Church.

]]> By: Letters from Leavers | pomomusings | progressive theologyhttp://lettersfromleavers.com/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&feed=Articles+%28RSS2%29&seed=http%3A%2F%2Flettersfromleavers.com%2Fblog%2F2007%2F02%2F18%2Fwe-have-been-to-a-church-where%2F&seed_title=I+Have+been+to+a+Church+Where%26%238230%3B/comment-page-1/#comment-42 Letters from Leavers | pomomusings | progressive theology Sat, 24 Feb 2007 16:51:11 +0000 http://lettersfromleavers.com/blog/2007/02/18/we-have-been-to-a-church-where/#comment-42 [...] state of many churches today…below are just a few paragraphs from a letter entitled: “I Have Been to a Church Where…” I have been a part of a Church where a pastor planted a new church according to the [...] [...] state of many churches today…below are just a few paragraphs from a letter entitled: “I Have Been to a Church Where…” I have been a part of a Church where a pastor planted a new church according to the [...]

]]> By: beloved268http://lettersfromleavers.com/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&feed=Articles+%28RSS2%29&seed=http%3A%2F%2Flettersfromleavers.com%2Fblog%2F2007%2F02%2F18%2Fwe-have-been-to-a-church-where%2F&seed_title=I+Have+been+to+a+Church+Where%26%238230%3B/comment-page-1/#comment-10 beloved268 Mon, 19 Feb 2007 16:20:53 +0000 http://lettersfromleavers.com/blog/2007/02/18/we-have-been-to-a-church-where/#comment-10 Where in the Bay Area do you live? My dad and his family live in Martinez and attend Grace Bible Church and absolutely love it. They've been members there for a few years now and are leading a small group Bible study in their home. I think the church meets in either Walnut Creek or Concord.The first bit of encouragement and challenge I would offer is to always, always make sure your walk with Christ is wholehearted, singleminded, and consistent. If we really, truly trust in God, then we trust that He will meet our needs (including our spiritual and social ones)... but only if we trust Him. And trust can't be present apart from fellowship, and fellowship can't be present without discipleship. So for me, the place to start when I become dissatisfied (or even downright depressed) with my church experience is ME. And, in my experience, it has helped my family and me through the difficult periods of "waiting it out" at a less than ideal church, while seeking God's face and His direction.Blessings on your journey.Matt Where in the Bay Area do you live? My dad and his family live in Martinez and attend Grace Bible Church and absolutely love it. They’ve been members there for a few years now and are leading a small group Bible study in their home. I think the church meets in either Walnut Creek or Concord.

The first bit of encouragement and challenge I would offer is to always, always make sure your walk with Christ is wholehearted, singleminded, and consistent. If we really, truly trust in God, then we trust that He will meet our needs (including our spiritual and social ones)… but only if we trust Him. And trust can’t be present apart from fellowship, and fellowship can’t be present without discipleship. So for me, the place to start when I become dissatisfied (or even downright depressed) with my church experience is ME. And, in my experience, it has helped my family and me through the difficult periods of “waiting it out” at a less than ideal church, while seeking God’s face and His direction.

Blessings on your journey.

Matt

]]> By: timhttp://lettersfromleavers.com/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&feed=Articles+%28RSS2%29&seed=http%3A%2F%2Flettersfromleavers.com%2Fblog%2F2007%2F02%2F18%2Fwe-have-been-to-a-church-where%2F&seed_title=I+Have+been+to+a+Church+Where%26%238230%3B/comment-page-1/#comment-9 tim Mon, 19 Feb 2007 06:58:42 +0000 http://lettersfromleavers.com/blog/2007/02/18/we-have-been-to-a-church-where/#comment-9 robspainSounds like you have seen many sides of the Church. This last sentence of your letter gets at the heart of the relation connection that Christ intends for the Church."Maybe the Kingdom is the ever present indwelling of Christ in our network structures. Maybe the church appears where connectivity between each other appears."Thanks for posting!Tim robspain

Sounds like you have seen many sides of the Church. This last sentence of your letter gets at the heart of the relation connection that Christ intends for the Church.

“Maybe the Kingdom is the ever present indwelling of Christ in our network structures. Maybe the church appears where connectivity between each other appears.”

Thanks for posting!

Tim

]]> By: Rethinking Perspective » Blog Archive » I Have been to a Church Wherehttp://lettersfromleavers.com/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&feed=Articles+%28RSS2%29&seed=http%3A%2F%2Flettersfromleavers.com%2Fblog%2F2007%2F02%2F18%2Fwe-have-been-to-a-church-where%2F&seed_title=I+Have+been+to+a+Church+Where%26%238230%3B/comment-page-1/#comment-8 Rethinking Perspective » Blog Archive » I Have been to a Church Where Sun, 18 Feb 2007 17:49:54 +0000 http://lettersfromleavers.com/blog/2007/02/18/we-have-been-to-a-church-where/#comment-8 [...] I just posted a letter about our last few years of church experience here. Much of my letter was originally composed as our introduction to the conversation that we hosted at the Soliton sessions. I thought this was a good forum to share some our of experiences on leaving church. [...] [...] I just posted a letter about our last few years of church experience here. Much of my letter was originally composed as our introduction to the conversation that we hosted at the Soliton sessions. I thought this was a good forum to share some our of experiences on leaving church. [...]

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