<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><!-- generator="wordpress/2.1" -->
<rss version="2.0" 
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/">
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Life outside the church walls</title>
	<link>http://lettersfromleavers.com/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&amp;feed=Articles+%28RSS2%29&amp;seed=http%3A%2F%2Flettersfromleavers.com%2Fblog%2F2007%2F07%2F05%2Flife-outside-the-church-walls%2F&amp;seed_title=Life+outside+the+church+walls</link>
	<description>"Dear Church..." - stories from those that have left</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 08:04:25 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.1</generator>

	<item>
		<title>By: ednoid</title>
		<link>http://lettersfromleavers.com/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&amp;feed=Articles+%28RSS2%29&amp;seed=http%3A%2F%2Flettersfromleavers.com%2Fblog%2F2007%2F07%2F05%2Flife-outside-the-church-walls%2F&amp;seed_title=Life+outside+the+church+walls#comment-299</link>
		<author>ednoid</author>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jul 2007 12:53:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://lettersfromleavers.com/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&amp;feed=Articles+%28RSS2%29&amp;seed=http%3A%2F%2Flettersfromleavers.com%2Fblog%2F2007%2F07%2F05%2Flife-outside-the-church-walls%2F&amp;seed_title=Life+outside+the+church+walls#comment-299</guid>
					<description>I really enjoyed what you had to say. I didn't go to your link yet and read your whole story, but I eventually will. You make some very valad points that I can relate to. I too am more interested in genuine friendship, rather than superficial ones. I'm not sure why it is so difficult for people in the IC to make a connection with others. I do understand that some people just don't have close relationships with other and that not everyone can connect, but it seems to me that the IC somehow creates an environment that keeps people from getting too close. Maybe it's that they keep people too busy doing stuff that doesn't seem to be that fulfilling. I don't know. 

After 16 years of heavy involvement and the dream of being a full time pastor I am no longer in an IC and to be honest I feel more available now than ever before.

Thank you for your words and for not criticizing the church. I've always felt that even though it is all messed up it still belongs to God and he will use it in this world.

Have a great day.

Ed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I really enjoyed what you had to say. I didn&#8217;t go to your link yet and read your whole story, but I eventually will. You make some very valad points that I can relate to. I too am more interested in genuine friendship, rather than superficial ones. I&#8217;m not sure why it is so difficult for people in the IC to make a connection with others. I do understand that some people just don&#8217;t have close relationships with other and that not everyone can connect, but it seems to me that the IC somehow creates an environment that keeps people from getting too close. Maybe it&#8217;s that they keep people too busy doing stuff that doesn&#8217;t seem to be that fulfilling. I don&#8217;t know. </p>
<p>After 16 years of heavy involvement and the dream of being a full time pastor I am no longer in an IC and to be honest I feel more available now than ever before.</p>
<p>Thank you for your words and for not criticizing the church. I&#8217;ve always felt that even though it is all messed up it still belongs to God and he will use it in this world.</p>
<p>Have a great day.</p>
<p>Ed.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Hippo</title>
		<link>http://lettersfromleavers.com/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&amp;feed=Articles+%28RSS2%29&amp;seed=http%3A%2F%2Flettersfromleavers.com%2Fblog%2F2007%2F07%2F05%2Flife-outside-the-church-walls%2F&amp;seed_title=Life+outside+the+church+walls#comment-300</link>
		<author>Hippo</author>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jul 2007 16:54:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://lettersfromleavers.com/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&amp;feed=Articles+%28RSS2%29&amp;seed=http%3A%2F%2Flettersfromleavers.com%2Fblog%2F2007%2F07%2F05%2Flife-outside-the-church-walls%2F&amp;seed_title=Life+outside+the+church+walls#comment-300</guid>
					<description>That is really true about what you said about how you have to be more proactive to find relationships when you leave church. I'm tempted to go back to church, because it was easier to make friends when i was in church. I find i don't know how to interact with people outside of the church setting. for that reason i'm really tempted to go back.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That is really true about what you said about how you have to be more proactive to find relationships when you leave church. I&#8217;m tempted to go back to church, because it was easier to make friends when i was in church. I find i don&#8217;t know how to interact with people outside of the church setting. for that reason i&#8217;m really tempted to go back.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: gpickren</title>
		<link>http://lettersfromleavers.com/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&amp;feed=Articles+%28RSS2%29&amp;seed=http%3A%2F%2Flettersfromleavers.com%2Fblog%2F2007%2F07%2F05%2Flife-outside-the-church-walls%2F&amp;seed_title=Life+outside+the+church+walls#comment-301</link>
		<author>gpickren</author>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jul 2007 23:09:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://lettersfromleavers.com/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&amp;feed=Articles+%28RSS2%29&amp;seed=http%3A%2F%2Flettersfromleavers.com%2Fblog%2F2007%2F07%2F05%2Flife-outside-the-church-walls%2F&amp;seed_title=Life+outside+the+church+walls#comment-301</guid>
					<description>Mar 10:29-30
(29)  Jesus said, "Truly I say to you, there is no one who has left house or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or farms, for My sake and for the gospel's sake,
(30)  but that he will receive a hundred times as much now in the present age, houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and farms, along with persecutions; and in the age to come, eternal life.

I have found this to be true in experience.  Before I left my business (farms) I thought I had a number of friends, but as my life slowed down I came to understand that these were acquaintances centered around the activities of my business.  Once the economic opportunities ceased so did the interest in me.

I point this out, because I think the same thing usually occurs in what we call "the church."  We have  acquaintances because of a common interest and activity, however, there is no depth to the relationship because it goes no farther than the common activity. This applies to small group meetings as much as the church service meetings.  True, you have more time to talk to the people than the "meet and greet" time, but I find that the small group meeting itself usually defines the extent of the relationship.  Some may disagree with me on this, but take this test.  

Of the people whom you meet at church sponsored activities, how many have been in your home or you in theirs or how many times have you shared a meal together separate from any church sponsored activity?  I suspect for most the answer will be zero?  And, even if the answer is occasionally, is that cause for boasting?

However, getting back to the passage above, the Lord has given me a few that are family.  He made the introductions.  Two occurred in an institutional church.  The others apart from any religious activity, yet from the first moment there was a deep connection that is greater than that of flesh and blood family members. Those of us who live near, constantly spend time with one another.  We share our houses, our meals and our lives.  Only one of them attends a church service with us, but even that would not matter.  We often may not even speak to each other during the meeting, but then we may spend the afternoon together at one of our houses.

Truth is, most people today make precious little time available to spend even with the  members of their own immediate family, so it should be no surprise when the relationships with others are superficial. The apostle John was plainspoken about this very matter:

1Jn 4:20-21
(20)  If someone says, "I love God," and hates his brother, he is a liar; for the one who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love God whom he has not seen.
(21)  And this commandment we have from Him, that the one who loves God should love his brother also.

We may attempt duck this by saying we do not "hate" our brother, but the test is not limited to that.  It also says one who does not love his brother CANNOT love God.  How can we say we love those whose company we do not desire enough even to spend time together?  This test is equally demanding, whether one attends an organized church or has left.  The state of our human relationships is reflective of our spiritual relationship.  If we spend time with God we cannot avoid having a strong desire for fellowship with the brethren -- a real, deep relationship -- and when the time is right, our Father will do what He promised, a  hundredfold.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mar 10:29-30<br />
(29)  Jesus said, &#8220;Truly I say to you, there is no one who has left house or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or farms, for My sake and for the gospel&#8217;s sake,<br />
(30)  but that he will receive a hundred times as much now in the present age, houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and farms, along with persecutions; and in the age to come, eternal life.</p>
<p>I have found this to be true in experience.  Before I left my business (farms) I thought I had a number of friends, but as my life slowed down I came to understand that these were acquaintances centered around the activities of my business.  Once the economic opportunities ceased so did the interest in me.</p>
<p>I point this out, because I think the same thing usually occurs in what we call &#8220;the church.&#8221;  We have  acquaintances because of a common interest and activity, however, there is no depth to the relationship because it goes no farther than the common activity. This applies to small group meetings as much as the church service meetings.  True, you have more time to talk to the people than the &#8220;meet and greet&#8221; time, but I find that the small group meeting itself usually defines the extent of the relationship.  Some may disagree with me on this, but take this test.  </p>
<p>Of the people whom you meet at church sponsored activities, how many have been in your home or you in theirs or how many times have you shared a meal together separate from any church sponsored activity?  I suspect for most the answer will be zero?  And, even if the answer is occasionally, is that cause for boasting?</p>
<p>However, getting back to the passage above, the Lord has given me a few that are family.  He made the introductions.  Two occurred in an institutional church.  The others apart from any religious activity, yet from the first moment there was a deep connection that is greater than that of flesh and blood family members. Those of us who live near, constantly spend time with one another.  We share our houses, our meals and our lives.  Only one of them attends a church service with us, but even that would not matter.  We often may not even speak to each other during the meeting, but then we may spend the afternoon together at one of our houses.</p>
<p>Truth is, most people today make precious little time available to spend even with the  members of their own immediate family, so it should be no surprise when the relationships with others are superficial. The apostle John was plainspoken about this very matter:</p>
<p>1Jn 4:20-21<br />
(20)  If someone says, &#8220;I love God,&#8221; and hates his brother, he is a liar; for the one who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love God whom he has not seen.<br />
(21)  And this commandment we have from Him, that the one who loves God should love his brother also.</p>
<p>We may attempt duck this by saying we do not &#8220;hate&#8221; our brother, but the test is not limited to that.  It also says one who does not love his brother CANNOT love God.  How can we say we love those whose company we do not desire enough even to spend time together?  This test is equally demanding, whether one attends an organized church or has left.  The state of our human relationships is reflective of our spiritual relationship.  If we spend time with God we cannot avoid having a strong desire for fellowship with the brethren &#8212; a real, deep relationship &#8212; and when the time is right, our Father will do what He promised, a  hundredfold.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: rosacola</title>
		<link>http://lettersfromleavers.com/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&amp;feed=Articles+%28RSS2%29&amp;seed=http%3A%2F%2Flettersfromleavers.com%2Fblog%2F2007%2F07%2F05%2Flife-outside-the-church-walls%2F&amp;seed_title=Life+outside+the+church+walls#comment-304</link>
		<author>rosacola</author>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jul 2007 16:27:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://lettersfromleavers.com/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&amp;feed=Articles+%28RSS2%29&amp;seed=http%3A%2F%2Flettersfromleavers.com%2Fblog%2F2007%2F07%2F05%2Flife-outside-the-church-walls%2F&amp;seed_title=Life+outside+the+church+walls#comment-304</guid>
					<description>"When I was in IC, I find my relationships there will grow weaker and weaker until I become a stranger when I stop doing my churchy things. I’m perplexed. Shouldn’t they still be my friends if I’m not around?And I realise then that one is obligated to do these activities in order to be included and accepted. It made me ill to realise that these people will only be my “friends” if I do the same things they do. Sometimes, I even have to change my personality to fit in. Their “love” was conditional. Community of God? Bulls***!"

You go Girl!!!!!!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;When I was in IC, I find my relationships there will grow weaker and weaker until I become a stranger when I stop doing my churchy things. I’m perplexed. Shouldn’t they still be my friends if I’m not around?And I realise then that one is obligated to do these activities in order to be included and accepted. It made me ill to realise that these people will only be my “friends” if I do the same things they do. Sometimes, I even have to change my personality to fit in. Their “love” was conditional. Community of God? Bulls***!&#8221;</p>
<p>You go Girl!!!!!!!!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
</channel>
</rss>

<!-- Dynamic Page Served (once) in 1.946 seconds -->
