Comments on: Leaving “The Church” http://lettersfromleavers.com/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&feed=Articles+%28RSS2%29&seed=http%3A%2F%2Flettersfromleavers.com%2Fblog%2F2007%2F07%2F15%2Fleaving-the-church%2F&seed_title=Leaving+%26%238220%3BThe+Church%26%238221%3B "Dear Church..." - stories from those that have left Fri, 30 Dec 2011 22:55:10 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1 By: What Does Cantankrous Mean? - Dogpile Web Searchhttp://lettersfromleavers.com/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&feed=Articles+%28RSS2%29&seed=http%3A%2F%2Flettersfromleavers.com%2Fblog%2F2007%2F07%2F15%2Fleaving-the-church%2F&seed_title=Leaving+%26%238220%3BThe+Church%26%238221%3B/comment-page-1/#comment-422 What Does Cantankrous Mean? - Dogpile Web Search Wed, 19 Mar 2008 15:35:59 +0000 http://lettersfromleavers.com/blog/2007/07/15/leaving-the-church/#comment-422 <!--%kramer-ref-pre%-->[...] Toolbar. Sponsored by: Dictionary.alottoolbars.com/ [Found on Ads by Google] 2. Leaving “The Church” at Letters From Leavers Just because we are “out” does not mean it is out of us. After all, this is exactly ... That [...]<!--%kramer-ref-post%--> [...] Toolbar. Sponsored by: Dictionary.alottoolbars.com/ [Found on Ads by Google] 2. Leaving “The Church” at Letters From Leavers Just because we are “out” does not mean it is out of us. After all, this is exactly … That [...]

]]> By: offscouringhttp://lettersfromleavers.com/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&feed=Articles+%28RSS2%29&seed=http%3A%2F%2Flettersfromleavers.com%2Fblog%2F2007%2F07%2F15%2Fleaving-the-church%2F&seed_title=Leaving+%26%238220%3BThe+Church%26%238221%3B/comment-page-1/#comment-351 offscouring Sat, 04 Aug 2007 13:55:12 +0000 http://lettersfromleavers.com/blog/2007/07/15/leaving-the-church/#comment-351 Ephesians 4:11-16 “ It was he who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers,to prepare God’s people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up UNTIL we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, Even as a newborn infant needs to be nurtured and fed, protected, and encouraged. So does a new convert to any faith with which he is desirious to become built up in. There is no issue with whether or not there is a need for leadership and direction. The problem is, that there seems to be a syndrom which curtails the maturation proccess. The church members seem to never become perfected in the faith. Else why would they keep coming back to be told by some man what God wants them to know. Everyone seems to miss that one little key word in the above scripture. UNTIL! this puts a whole new light on the leaderships place resonsibility and term. until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, If the so-called pillars we doing the right thing they would be turning the churchhouse crowd out to minister to the world instead of feeding on them as a wolf does a downed prey. Jesus asked Peter "Do you love Me? Peter of course replied Yes! Jesus Said "FEED MY SHEEP" He said this three times. He didn't say feed on my sheep He didn't milk my sheep. He didn't say shear my sheep. BUT FEED! the concept of a churchouse is contrary to the priciples of evangelism. How can we be sent out to minister to the world when we are sitting at the feet of a reverand rabbi or some other exatled guru. Evidently we are not come to the unity of the faith or the knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ else we wouldn't keep going back to be spoon fed a diet of sectarinism and submission to the whims of men. The little word UNTIL! is a corner on the road to maturity many miss. dan Ephesians 4:11-16 “ It was he who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers,to prepare God’s people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up UNTIL we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature,
Even as a newborn infant needs to be nurtured and fed, protected, and encouraged. So does a new convert to any faith with which he is desirious to become built up in. There is no issue with whether or not there is a need for leadership and direction. The problem is, that there seems to be a syndrom which curtails the maturation proccess. The church members seem to never become perfected in the faith. Else why would they keep coming back to be told by some man what God wants them to know. Everyone seems to miss that one little key word in the above scripture.
UNTIL!
this puts a whole new light on the leaderships place resonsibility and term.
until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature,
If the so-called pillars we doing the right thing they would be turning the churchhouse crowd out to minister to the world instead of feeding on them as a wolf does a downed prey.
Jesus asked Peter “Do you love Me?
Peter of course replied Yes!
Jesus Said “FEED MY SHEEP”
He said this three times.
He didn’t say feed on my sheep
He didn’t milk my sheep.
He didn’t say shear my sheep.
BUT FEED!
the concept of a churchouse is contrary to the priciples of evangelism. How can we be sent out to minister to the world when we are sitting at the feet of a reverand rabbi or some other exatled guru.
Evidently we are not come to the unity of the faith or the knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ else we wouldn’t keep going back to be spoon fed a diet of sectarinism and submission to the whims of men.
The little word UNTIL! is a corner on the road to maturity many miss.
dan

]]> By: sharris1026http://lettersfromleavers.com/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&feed=Articles+%28RSS2%29&seed=http%3A%2F%2Flettersfromleavers.com%2Fblog%2F2007%2F07%2F15%2Fleaving-the-church%2F&seed_title=Leaving+%26%238220%3BThe+Church%26%238221%3B/comment-page-1/#comment-350 sharris1026 Fri, 03 Aug 2007 08:40:37 +0000 http://lettersfromleavers.com/blog/2007/07/15/leaving-the-church/#comment-350 Rick, Jesus didn't come to "invite people to church" nor to "start a church" as men do today; rather, He came to make PEOPLE His Church by revelation of Himself. So if I am the church, and you are the church, where could we ever go to "go to church?" When we come together, WE ARE the church. When we are apart, we are the church, too. Can an arm arbitrarily declare that a leg's not part of the body simply because it's located at the opposite end of the torso? I think not. Neither can I judge you or you judge me "not part of the body" simply because one of us does not meet in a namebrand assembly.Sadly, this truth can never be taught from pulpits for fear that it might detract from the headcount in local manmade organizations. Sheila Rick,
Jesus didn’t come to “invite people to church” nor to “start a church” as men do today; rather, He came to make PEOPLE His Church by revelation of Himself. So if I am the church, and you are the church, where could we ever go to “go to church?” When we come together, WE ARE the church. When we are apart, we are the church, too. Can an arm arbitrarily declare that a leg’s not part of the body simply because it’s located at the opposite end of the torso? I think not. Neither can I judge you or you judge me “not part of the body” simply because one of us does not meet in a namebrand assembly.

Sadly, this truth can never be taught from pulpits for fear that it might detract from the headcount in local manmade organizations.
Sheila

]]> By: gpickrenhttp://lettersfromleavers.com/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&feed=Articles+%28RSS2%29&seed=http%3A%2F%2Flettersfromleavers.com%2Fblog%2F2007%2F07%2F15%2Fleaving-the-church%2F&seed_title=Leaving+%26%238220%3BThe+Church%26%238221%3B/comment-page-1/#comment-349 gpickren Fri, 03 Aug 2007 01:05:43 +0000 http://lettersfromleavers.com/blog/2007/07/15/leaving-the-church/#comment-349 Rick, I agree that we should not give up on the "local church." I think where the disagreement may come is just what is the "local church?" I know what you mean by it. It is the group of church people, who attend a church service, in a church building owned or rented by a church organization, most of which have named themselves to be such and such Church, to distinguish them from the other churches.On my block there are people who attend four or five churches, all of which are within five minutes of my house. Which one of these is the "local church?" If I find someone who is not affiliated with one of these organizations and they come over to my house and we talk for four hours straight about what the Lord is doing in our lives, is that person not part of the local church.You see, Rick, the difference between us on this subject, is that I believe that every person who loves the Lord who lives within driving distance is part of the local church and I greatly desire to get to know any of them as the Lord leads. In fact, I go to some lengths to find them. I even go to "a local Church" where I have found a few. I attend a morning gathering of men some of which attend meetings in 40 or 50 "churches", but some don't. Is this a gathering of the local church? Are the ones who are not members of a religious organization not part of the local church?Because of land planning we have some land that was zoned for "churches" and the street is filled with them. Most patrons never even cross the street to meet with anyone who attends meetings in another building. Which one of these groups is the "local church?"See what I mean? Rick, I agree that we should not give up on the “local church.” I think where the disagreement may come is just what is the “local church?” I know what you mean by it. It is the group of church people, who attend a church service, in a church building owned or rented by a church organization, most of which have named themselves to be such and such Church, to distinguish them from the other churches.

On my block there are people who attend four or five churches, all of which are within five minutes of my house. Which one of these is the “local church?” If I find someone who is not affiliated with one of these organizations and they come over to my house and we talk for four hours straight about what the Lord is doing in our lives, is that person not part of the local church.

You see, Rick, the difference between us on this subject, is that I believe that every person who loves the Lord who lives within driving distance is part of the local church and I greatly desire to get to know any of them as the Lord leads. In fact, I go to some lengths to find them. I even go to “a local Church” where I have found a few. I attend a morning gathering of men some of which attend meetings in 40 or 50 “churches”, but some don’t. Is this a gathering of the local church? Are the ones who are not members of a religious organization not part of the local church?

Because of land planning we have some land that was zoned for “churches” and the street is filled with them. Most patrons never even cross the street to meet with anyone who attends meetings in another building. Which one of these groups is the “local church?”

See what I mean?

]]> By: patrobushttp://lettersfromleavers.com/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&feed=Articles+%28RSS2%29&seed=http%3A%2F%2Flettersfromleavers.com%2Fblog%2F2007%2F07%2F15%2Fleaving-the-church%2F&seed_title=Leaving+%26%238220%3BThe+Church%26%238221%3B/comment-page-1/#comment-348 patrobus Thu, 02 Aug 2007 20:10:26 +0000 http://lettersfromleavers.com/blog/2007/07/15/leaving-the-church/#comment-348 I apologize for not making myself clearer in my post. I guess that comes from not having or taking the time to really concentrate. I was simply trying to convey that here on earth, in our human from, we were not created divine, meaning we are not “gods” as some might say. I realize and look forward to that time when we will be changed, but that is the key we will be changed into something we are not right now.To return to the original theme of this post, As a member of the Body of Christ I am saddened that so many have given up on what is known as the local church. It is filled with imperfect people, some more imperfect than others, some even serving their own ends, but I believe it is still God’s means to fulfill His plan. Most of the New Testament is laid out either to correct wrongs in local churches or give insight into their establishment.Even the pillars of the early church struggled. Paul had to rebuke Peter for his wrong actions. Paul and Barnabas were in sharp disagreement over how to do ministry. Apollos had to be corrected by Priscilla and Aquila. The “church” has never been perfect nor will it ever be. I am just glad that God doesn’t give up on us because we don’t get it right like some have given up on the “church” for not getting it right.Ephesians 4:11-16 “ It was he who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers,to prepare God's people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ. Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming. Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will in all things grow up into him who is the Head, that is, Christ. From him the whole body, joined and held together by every supporting ligament, grows and builds itself up in love, as each part does its work.” NIVPastors and teachers are part of God's plan, but we must study ourselves so we won't be deceived by false taeachers that will strive to destory us.Keep studying the Word and allowing the Holy Spirit to speak to your hearts and some day we will meet Him in the air and be with Him forever. Be encouraged and blessed and may the peace of God be with you all. Rick I apologize for not making myself clearer in my post. I guess that comes from not having or taking the time to really concentrate. I was simply trying to convey that here on earth, in our human from, we were not created divine, meaning we are not “gods” as some might say. I realize and look forward to that time when we will be changed, but that is the key we will be changed into something we are not right now.

To return to the original theme of this post, As a member of the Body of Christ I am saddened that so many have given up on what is known as the local church. It is filled with imperfect people, some more imperfect than others, some even serving their own ends, but I believe it is still God’s means to fulfill His plan. Most of the New Testament is laid out either to correct wrongs in local churches or give insight into their establishment.

Even the pillars of the early church struggled. Paul had to rebuke Peter for his wrong actions. Paul and Barnabas were in sharp disagreement over how to do ministry. Apollos had to be corrected by Priscilla and Aquila. The “church” has never been perfect nor will it ever be. I am just glad that God doesn’t give up on us because we don’t get it right like some have given up on the “church” for not getting it right.

Ephesians 4:11-16 “ It was he who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers,to prepare God’s people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ. Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming. Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will in all things grow up into him who is the Head, that is, Christ. From him the whole body, joined and held together by every supporting ligament, grows and builds itself up in love, as each part does its work.” NIV

Pastors and teachers are part of God’s plan, but we must study ourselves so we won’t be deceived by false taeachers that will strive to destory us.

Keep studying the Word and allowing the Holy Spirit to speak to your hearts and some day we will meet Him in the air and be with Him forever. Be encouraged and blessed and may the peace of God be with you all.
Rick

]]> By: gpickrenhttp://lettersfromleavers.com/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&feed=Articles+%28RSS2%29&seed=http%3A%2F%2Flettersfromleavers.com%2Fblog%2F2007%2F07%2F15%2Fleaving-the-church%2F&seed_title=Leaving+%26%238220%3BThe+Church%26%238221%3B/comment-page-1/#comment-345 gpickren Sun, 29 Jul 2007 23:43:15 +0000 http://lettersfromleavers.com/blog/2007/07/15/leaving-the-church/#comment-345 "If we insist that others agree with us doctrinally (no matter how convinced we are of the truth of it), then we are guilty of the same error we came out of, namely, that we can be saved by a doctrinal teaching.”That is pretty close to what I said. I would agree we are not saved by assent to any doctrinal teaching, but by grace through faith in Christ. Most have no knowledge of any doctrine when they are saved and I know a couple who testify that they were just like the blind man you cited. They didn't know what had happened to them. They had not prayed a sinner's prayer nor walked an aisle, but all of a sudden because of the Lord'd intervention they see. Note that Jesus took the initiative with the blind man and he did not even know who gave him sight.This is not to say that it is always this way. It certainly is not, and it seems that the Lord takes pains to do this in a wide variety of ways, perhaps to avoid giving credence to men who attempt to turn grace into a religious method. If He wanted us to have a ritual, He is fully capable of spelling one out in minute detail as He did for Moses as He set forth the similitude that would find its spiritual reality in Christ.So then paraphrasing Paul in his letter to the Galatians, I have one question to ask you. Did you receive the Holy Spirit because of your vast and perfect knowledge of doctrine or by faith? If by faith, why then having begun in the Spirit by faith do you think you can now be perfected by knowledge of scripture.This is not to minimize the value of proper understanding of scripture, for I do believe that our acceptance of false teaching can great arrest our growth, as should be evident by the state of maturity in the churches. However, the most important thing in our bible reading, in my opinion, is relying on the Holy Spirit as our teacher. Having begun with a spiritual revelation of Christ, we must be fed a diet of unleavened bread. That bread can only be received by revelation, just as when you first believed.Regarding this I quote a brother who seemed to have a good take on it: "If I have to teach a person how to respond to revelation, that person did not have a revelation of Christ. It is dead religious traditions that need to teach its followers how to respond. An introduction to the living person of Christ needs no artificial protocols" “If we insist that others agree with us doctrinally (no matter how convinced we are of the truth of it), then we are guilty of the same error we came out of, namely, that we can be saved by a doctrinal teaching.”

That is pretty close to what I said. I would agree we are not saved by assent to any doctrinal teaching, but by grace through faith in Christ. Most have no knowledge of any doctrine when they are saved and I know a couple who testify that they were just like the blind man you cited. They didn’t know what had happened to them. They had not prayed a sinner’s prayer nor walked an aisle, but all of a sudden because of the Lord’d intervention they see. Note that Jesus took the initiative with the blind man and he did not even know who gave him sight.

This is not to say that it is always this way. It certainly is not, and it seems that the Lord takes pains to do this in a wide variety of ways, perhaps to avoid giving credence to men who attempt to turn grace into a religious method. If He wanted us to have a ritual, He is fully capable of spelling one out in minute detail as He did for Moses as He set forth the similitude that would find its spiritual reality in Christ.

So then paraphrasing Paul in his letter to the Galatians, I have one question to ask you. Did you receive the Holy Spirit because of your vast and perfect knowledge of doctrine or by faith? If by faith, why then having begun in the Spirit by faith do you think you can now be perfected by knowledge of scripture.

This is not to minimize the value of proper understanding of scripture, for I do believe that our acceptance of false teaching can great arrest our growth, as should be evident by the state of maturity in the churches. However, the most important thing in our bible reading, in my opinion, is relying on the Holy Spirit as our teacher. Having begun with a spiritual revelation of Christ, we must be fed a diet of unleavened bread. That bread can only be received by revelation, just as when you first believed.

Regarding this I quote a brother who seemed to have a good take on it: “If I have to teach a person how to respond to revelation, that person did not have a revelation of Christ. It is dead religious traditions that need to teach its followers how to respond. An introduction to the living person of Christ needs no artificial protocols”

]]> By: offscouringhttp://lettersfromleavers.com/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&feed=Articles+%28RSS2%29&seed=http%3A%2F%2Flettersfromleavers.com%2Fblog%2F2007%2F07%2F15%2Fleaving-the-church%2F&seed_title=Leaving+%26%238220%3BThe+Church%26%238221%3B/comment-page-1/#comment-344 offscouring Sun, 29 Jul 2007 14:55:14 +0000 http://lettersfromleavers.com/blog/2007/07/15/leaving-the-church/#comment-344 thy faith has me thee whole (Jesus) The message Jesus brought to us was simple, we are each endowed with the capacity to know that God is our father and we are indeed eternal in Him. There is therefore no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus. ( There never was any condemnation, on an inculcation of superstition) Christ brought to us the way the truth and the Life. Jesus took aware the doctrine of separation, and segregation. Jesus ministered to jew and gentile, rich and poor, moral and immoral alike. The veil is rent ussunder, the temple has been destroyed and we are become one in Christ Jesus with no gurus, priests, preachers, pastors, or any other prealate to dictate doctrine, divisions or to have dominion over the Body of Christ. I reiterate ad-infintum it was the proffesional churchmen who condemned our Lord, the Prophets of old, and it is the same who merchendise the gospel and market the souls of men today, in the name of Jesus they build walls and fetter the minds of the children of the most High. What shall be the end of those who serve themselves in the name of Jesus? (Simon the sorcerer) dan thy faith has me thee whole
(Jesus)
The message Jesus brought to us was simple, we are each endowed with the capacity to know that God is our father and we are indeed eternal in Him.
There is therefore no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus. ( There never was any condemnation, on an inculcation of superstition) Christ brought to us the way the truth and the Life. Jesus took aware the doctrine of separation, and segregation. Jesus ministered to jew and gentile, rich and poor, moral and immoral alike.
The veil is rent ussunder, the temple has been destroyed and we are become one in Christ Jesus with no gurus, priests, preachers, pastors, or any other prealate to dictate doctrine, divisions or to have dominion over the Body of Christ.
I reiterate ad-infintum it was the proffesional churchmen who condemned our Lord, the Prophets of old, and it is the same who merchendise the gospel and market the souls of men today, in the name of Jesus they build walls and fetter the minds of the children of the most High.
What shall be the end of those who serve themselves in the name of Jesus? (Simon the sorcerer)
dan

]]> By: sharris1026http://lettersfromleavers.com/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&feed=Articles+%28RSS2%29&seed=http%3A%2F%2Flettersfromleavers.com%2Fblog%2F2007%2F07%2F15%2Fleaving-the-church%2F&seed_title=Leaving+%26%238220%3BThe+Church%26%238221%3B/comment-page-1/#comment-343 sharris1026 Sun, 29 Jul 2007 05:17:36 +0000 http://lettersfromleavers.com/blog/2007/07/15/leaving-the-church/#comment-343 Tim, Although I appreciate your reason for wanting to curtail offscouring and gpickren's dialogue, I want you to know I have found it intriguing, and I have not been the least bit dismayed that they may have appeared to veer from directly commenting on my letter. Of all that was said in the above "dialogue," one thing I appreciated most was something said by gpickren, and I paraphrase: "If we insist that others agree with us doctrinally (no matter how convinced we are of the truth of it), then we are guilty of the same error we came out of, namely, that we can be saved by a doctrinal teaching." I am reminded of John chapter 9 when the man who was blind from birth had his sight restored by Jesus and was told by the Jews that Jesus was a sinner. His reply says it all, "whether he be a sinner or no, I know not: one thing I know, that, whereas I was blind, now I see." AMEN! I think too often we get caught up in putting the emphasis on "right doctrine," which we cannot convince anyone of no matter how hard we try, because ultimately it must be revealed by the Spirit. I cannot determine who of those around me may or may not have the seed of divinity, but they certainly have the potential for having their "sight restored" just as I did, for I know it was nothing in me that brought about my healing. To God be the glory! The why's or wherefore's, I know not, I only know that "whereas I was blind, now I see." Whereas I was in fear, now I am FREE! Sheila Tim,
Although I appreciate your reason for wanting to curtail offscouring and gpickren’s dialogue, I want you to know I have found it intriguing, and I have not been the least bit dismayed that they may have appeared to veer from directly commenting on my letter. Of all that was said in the above “dialogue,” one thing I appreciated most was something said by gpickren, and I paraphrase: “If we insist that others agree with us doctrinally (no matter how convinced we are of the truth of it), then we are guilty of the same error we came out of, namely, that we can be saved by a doctrinal teaching.” I am reminded of John chapter 9 when the man who was blind from birth had his sight restored by Jesus and was told by the Jews that Jesus was a sinner. His reply says it all, “whether he be a sinner or no, I know not: one thing I know, that, whereas I was blind, now I see.” AMEN! I think too often we get caught up in putting the emphasis on “right doctrine,” which we cannot convince anyone of no matter how hard we try, because ultimately it must be revealed by the Spirit. I cannot determine who of those around me may or may not have the seed of divinity, but they certainly have the potential for having their “sight restored” just as I did, for I know it was nothing in me that brought about my healing. To God be the glory! The why’s or wherefore’s, I know not, I only know that “whereas I was blind, now I see.” Whereas I was in fear, now I am FREE!
Sheila

]]> By: gpickrenhttp://lettersfromleavers.com/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&feed=Articles+%28RSS2%29&seed=http%3A%2F%2Flettersfromleavers.com%2Fblog%2F2007%2F07%2F15%2Fleaving-the-church%2F&seed_title=Leaving+%26%238220%3BThe+Church%26%238221%3B/comment-page-1/#comment-342 gpickren Sat, 28 Jul 2007 17:48:14 +0000 http://lettersfromleavers.com/blog/2007/07/15/leaving-the-church/#comment-342 I trust that this is directly on topic and seems to address Sheila's personal experience and shows her experience is certainly not unique."Let us be perfectly frank and plain. Beloved, it is true that there are many good people, many leading Evangelical people, many Peters if you like, touching whose devotion to the Lord we can have no question: their zeal, their consecration, is not open to discussion; and yet they are so tied by a fixed system that they become points of conflict where the matter of going right on with the Lord is concerned. They oppose, they make the difficulty and the trouble: and it is not themselves personally but the thing which binds them. In principle it is this Judaism cropping up again, a fixed system which has held for generations and centuries, a tradition which is established, and anything that seems to require a superseding of that tradition - I choose the word carefully - at once provokes antagonism and conflict. Is it not strange? Why do I use the word supersede? Because of what Paul says here. He says there are those who have come in with another Gospel, which is not another. He means this, that all that came in with Israel was intended to lead right on to Christ, but now it is being used to hold back from Christ."Read the whole thing here: http://www.austin-sparks.net/english/books/001953.html I trust that this is directly on topic and seems to address Sheila’s personal experience and shows her experience is certainly not unique.

“Let us be perfectly frank and plain. Beloved, it is true that there are many good people, many leading Evangelical people, many Peters if you like, touching whose devotion to the Lord we can have no question: their zeal, their consecration, is not open to discussion; and yet they are so tied by a fixed system that they become points of conflict where the matter of going right on with the Lord is concerned. They oppose, they make the difficulty and the trouble: and it is not themselves personally but the thing which binds them. In principle it is this Judaism cropping up again, a fixed system which has held for generations and centuries, a tradition which is established, and anything that seems to require a superseding of that tradition – I choose the word carefully – at once provokes antagonism and conflict. Is it not strange? Why do I use the word supersede? Because of what Paul says here. He says there are those who have come in with another Gospel, which is not another. He means this, that all that came in with Israel was intended to lead right on to Christ, but now it is being used to hold back from Christ.”

Read the whole thing here: http://www.austin-sparks.net/english/books/001953.html

]]> By: offscouringhttp://lettersfromleavers.com/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&feed=Articles+%28RSS2%29&seed=http%3A%2F%2Flettersfromleavers.com%2Fblog%2F2007%2F07%2F15%2Fleaving-the-church%2F&seed_title=Leaving+%26%238220%3BThe+Church%26%238221%3B/comment-page-1/#comment-341 offscouring Sat, 28 Jul 2007 01:02:09 +0000 http://lettersfromleavers.com/blog/2007/07/15/leaving-the-church/#comment-341 Tim I hope not to be construed as militant;yet; As I understand the crux of the letter above from Sheila dealt with the fixation of being lost without the approval and attendant induction into the sectarian ideaology. The essence of the comments here have dealt with the most fudamental premise of that ideaology. ie. the doctrine of man either being created in the image and likeness of God and have been made a living soul by the inculcation of God's Spirit at the time of creation. Or whether indeed man is only a entity possessing the capcity to become a living soul. Church membership many times is an essential element in salvation and so has baptism, communion, confession, etc ,etc, These concepts have perpetrated a doctrine which denotes that man has to be initiated or transfigured by means of some act to become a child of the most High. WHOA! I don't slight these things as being viable observances with solemn conotations. BUT not the least bit relevant to ones relationship to our Father in heaven. Sheila shares with us her abject bondage to the Church as her only hope to escape HELL! Shame on those men who will use fear to coerce unwary folk into serving them. It is only through the teaching that we are something other than the offspring of God that fear can assume that strangle hold on us. When we come to realise that God is our Father and we have access to Him though our Brother, Priest, and King Lord Jesus Christ, then fear holds no power over us. Hence the doctrine of duality is become to us a mute issue. A loathesome tool used for 1700 years to bring those who seek the Kingdom of God and His righteouness into a subservient status for the exaltation of the prealates and those whom they ORDAIN unto themselves as priests. ((((SUCH AS YE DO UNTO THE LEAST OF THESE MY BRETHERN YE DO UNTO ME)))))Jesus dan Tim
I hope not to be construed as militant;

yet;
As I understand the crux of the letter above from Sheila dealt with the fixation of being lost without the approval and attendant induction into the sectarian ideaology. The essence of the comments here have dealt with the most fudamental premise of that ideaology. ie. the doctrine of man either being created in the image and likeness of God and have been made a living soul by the inculcation of God’s Spirit at the time of creation. Or whether indeed man is only a entity possessing the capcity to become a living soul.
Church membership many times is an essential element in salvation and so has baptism, communion, confession, etc ,etc,
These concepts have perpetrated a doctrine which denotes that man has to be initiated or transfigured by means of some act to become a child of the most High.
WHOA! I don’t slight these things as being viable observances with solemn conotations. BUT not the least bit relevant to ones relationship to our Father in heaven.
Sheila shares with us her abject bondage to the Church as her only hope to escape HELL!
Shame on those men who will use fear to coerce unwary folk into serving them. It is only through the teaching that we are something other than the offspring of God that fear can assume that strangle hold on us.
When we come to realise that God is our Father and we have access to Him though our Brother, Priest, and King Lord Jesus Christ, then fear holds no power over us. Hence the doctrine of duality is become to us a mute issue. A loathesome tool used for 1700 years to bring those who seek the Kingdom of God and His righteouness into a subservient status for the exaltation of the prealates and those whom they ORDAIN unto themselves as priests.
((((SUCH AS YE DO UNTO THE LEAST OF THESE MY BRETHERN YE DO UNTO ME)))))Jesus
dan

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